Winterreise

SBB: And how did you come across Hans Zender’s interpretation of Winterreise?

CS: Much later. By chance, I heard this adapted version and was immediately captivated. First, because a new sound world was created. Schubert’s Winterreise is an icon of music literature, which no one questions anymore. I see that as a problem, because now the work is increasingly disappearing behind the interpretation. There are always new recordings focusing on the singer or the pianists. My excitement was really that Zender managed to show an entirely new perspective on Schubert’s Winterreise, from which he exposed the original work. It’s almost like a deconstruction that invites us to listen differently in order to understand Winterreise even better. Moreover, Zender’s music raises many questions. A lot is left open. After listening several times, I immediately had images in my mind and wanted to bring this version to the stage.

SBB: What does Winterreise still tell us today?

CS: If you really internalize the theme, it is still highly relevant today. The lost «self» in a overwhelmingly powerful nature, especially in winter, which will always win, the inner isolation, the cry of despair, but also giving up and being foreign. This work from 200 years ago is so romantic and lyrical, yet it remains the same phenomenon today. People who are simply lost or displaced and can’t find any support. Ultimately, Winterreise is about places of warmth and closeness that are increasingly being lost.

SBB: How has the text influenced the choreography?

CS: First, it was important for me to understand the text and music exactly. But it was clear to me: if there is an image like the Lindenbaum, I don’t want to see a Lindenbaum on stage. I find it difficult to illustrate something that is already expressed in metaphors. These images inspired me more choreographically. Ultimately, it was about finding a certain freedom to create images and movements that engage in dialogue with the text and music. It was a long search for the right abstract images that convey loneliness, nature, or coldness.

SBB: This kind of abstract illustration runs through your work.

CS: The stage is a space where we can create all sorts of images. The more puzzling they are, the clearer I always find the message. It’s difficult when something is explicitly stated on stage, I often find that unbelievable. Naturalism on stage is always secondary to the work. Symbols and abstract images are much more exciting. I always find it difficult when attempts are made in productions – whether opera, ballet, or drama – to suggest authenticity and naturalism on stage. Theatre can never be real; it is always just illusion. But I must admit, I’m a child of my time. Artists who worked in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, or choreographer William Forsythe, were all very committed to this abstract imagery. I feel very close to that.

SBB: How does this search for abstract images reflect in your costume choices?

CS: The first thought is, of course, to dress the dancers in gloves and wool hats to suggest coldness. Costume designer Emma Ryott immediately rejected this and said, “We’ll do it the opposite way.” She wanted to show a lot of skin, because she believed that coldness and vulnerability could best be conveyed this way.

SBB: Coldness is also conveyed a lot through the perception of light, which plays a central role in Winterreise. How did you deal with this?

CS: I think winter is the season where light shows the greatest variety. In my childhood, winters were still really cold, with snow piles several meters high. And there were many varying shades of white. The way the sun broke through was spectacular. And with my parents, the hikes always took several hours, so we arrived during the blue hour. I wanted to capture this on stage with these huge neon tubes that give a very strange direct light and tell a bit of this cold.

SBB: The stage space is also bathed in wintry grey.

CS: The main character is a wanderer. One would imagine an endless space. But we immediately went in the opposite direction and said, we’ll make it tight, we’ll make a chamber. We even painted the dance floor, which wasn’t easy because set designer Rufus Didwiszus really wanted to create an icy surface. Unfortunately, it was very slippery. We then found a transparent floor that was painted from underneath to create this feeling of cold. The set changes naturally through the cold light of the neon lamps, and there are two depressions that allow unusual entrances for the dancers, and the dancers sometimes appear as if they are buried in the snow. It’s an abstract approach to a winter landscape.

SBB: How do you approach the vocal soloist in Winterreise compared to the choir in Messa da Requiem? Are they also integrated into the choreography?

CS: The singer is clearly visible in the orchestra pit. It is relatively high and integrated into the set design. For me, it was clear from the moment the singer stands on stage and sings «Ich» («I»), «Fremd bin ich ausgegangen» («I left as a stranger»), it’s immediately clear that this is now the main character, and everything revolves around them. The moment they sing from the orchestra pit, and another dancer is on stage, thought spaces immediately open up. The narrative “I” is not only represented by one artist.

SBB: Do you have specific ideas on what you want to change for your Berlin version?

CS: I’ll let it come to me. During the preparation, I realized that I would choreograph some things differently today. But how exactly the Berlin version will look, that will reveal itself in the studio together with the dancers. I’m curious myself and look forward to re-engaging with Winterreise and rethinking many things with the fantastic dancers of the Staatsballett Berlin.

Excerpt from Ballettzeitung No. 4. The interview was conducted by Michael Hoh.